The Social Studies Corner

Mr Sulaiman, I cant wait for this question to come out.[ About NS for ladies ]
 

well, this question is really hot and good.yupps...go for this topic!
 

nice! gals in ns.cool! a really big topic which we can discuss on.
 

Please use names which we can relate to. Who is 'hawkzx'? I cannot be going back to the initial posts to check on who this is. Please change and use your own name so that we all can understand who you are.
 

firstly, i would want to comment on desiree's post on her saying that girls should not go for national service, i definitely disagree with her..national service- the knowledge that majority of the people have of national service is that once you get into it, life will be tough, hardships, stressful... All this will be able to build up ones character and prepare us for any hardships.It;s only when a person is exposed to these elements, that they will be able to learn and stay tough and strong.
I feel that national service should be made COMPULSARY for GIRlS, and not only just for GUYS.
GiRLs would then be strong and able to protect themselves. also, it helpes Girls to face events bravely. DO you agree that majority of people have the idea /impression that gUyS aRE ALWAYS STRONGER THAN GIRLS? wHY do people have that impression then?
Did you ever think how girls felt
when people see them as always weak, fragile?
 

NS for girls? National Service is a thing all singaporeans should contribute. I would agree to Jocelyn to some extent. Im answering at a neutual level, no siding on any gender. Although NS is tough, character development will be the result. Notice when boys undergo NS, after a period they will centainly become more outspoken, have more leadership. But there still a bad side of it. Maybe one example. Most of those who undergo NS become more vulgur, this is normal. The language they use in army is kind of corrupted. We wouldn't want ladies in singapore to go around *toot*. Most of the boys still change back after leaving army like by their girlfriends asking them to stop their vulguries. If girls also speak that, there no end to it.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

uproar in singapore? Are you very sure? what makes u so sure that the reaction of girls will be that? Perhaps, you might never know, instead they will be so exicted about it? well, regarding about beng hawkx post.. it seems to me that being tough, or something means vulgar..i don't think people who undergoes NS becomes Vulgar or crude.Yupp.INstead builds up character
 

Yup. I totally agree with brian. What happen in the 70's when NS was first formed. Many people went against the goverment. Hmm? If like what joc say about character building in there, sure! y not. My bro is in army now and his platoon have 2 girls in it. not sure y they sign on although many people are trying to run away from it. Hmm. It will be still true about girls physical level will be lower than boys. Cause majority play physical games from young. Unless exceptional girls doing that too. Girls in army will still do lesser. But physical test in there is both the same. Only example went go training, the guys will carry m-16,webbing, helmet,bagpack. Girls only carry their helmet. I'll still stick to the current system optional for girls. If not outcome would be SG FILLED WITH MANLY GALS?!?! OMG! loLs.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

Vulgur? Hmm. Though we do not see much NS men jus blabbering it out, it just happen. From my experience, from the people i know of. Some anti-vulguries, 1 month in BMT, their first four-letter word. Seems untrue, but it really does happens.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

Beng Hock - Mr Raj, Mr Trevor, Mr Sulaiman, Mr Jimmy Tong, Mr Jimmy Lee, Mr Andrew Lim, Mr Jimmy Lee, Mr Sidek, Mr Chong How Kiat ..... keep recalling back all your male teachers. All of them went through National Service. Are they vulgar?
 

About the uproar during the introduction of national service - yes, there was an uproar but we had to do it in order to bring about a change which is much required. Thus, it does not really matter whether there will be an uproar - the big question is: Do we really need the girls to do National Service? How our country and the girls tend to benefit from this? Are there any possible problems?
 

Maybe cant say much about vulguries. Most still change back after going out to the real world.
Do we really need the girls to do National Service? I would say no. Cause now most of the military defences are all depending on technology. Even for guys, the NS period is shorten because of technology. Does it mean that if girls go for NS,the NS period will be shorten again? due to too many manpower.
 

Jocelyn - it is not idea or impression, it is a fact that guys are stronger than girls - when it commes to physical strengths. Why do you think i ask for guy volunteers to move heavy stuff in the NE gallery and not the girls? However, that does not mean girls are weaker. In many other aspects, it is the capacity building and effort by individual which matters - guys or girls can equally compete with each other.
 

Beng Hock - disagree with you. You said most guys change back to normal after NS? That implies that during NS they are using vulgarities, etc? I must say it is a matter of principles. If your principles and values are strong, you would never use vulgarities in the first place.
 

Let's think a little bit deeper. Should NS be equated to military service? Can girls still serve national service in other forms e.g. nursing? or how about a list of options and they have to choose (both boys and girls). It is all about re-thinking and re-inventing what we are doing now.
 

hmm.Ya .exactly what i wanted to say. We control our vulguries. Example a decent boy who know nth about vulguries go in to NS. Vulgur words will just add to his dictionary. Although he will control it, but at a fit of anger everything will jus blabber out. RIte?

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

ok, well, reluctantly agree with theng ong that it is not idea or impression,but it is a fact that guys are stronger than girls.But still in my opinion i think that girls should go for National service, perhaps do not make them compulsary like what some of you have said. If girls were to join NS, it would help to strengthen singapore's military. More people will be there to protect singapore in times of war.
Regarding benny's post, well, can you imagine having a girlfriend who is so immature,fragile. childish? nAtional service Do instill a sense of pride and loyalty in each and everyone of us.From there, it will teach us how important it is to defend our country and it will constantly remind us that THIS IS OUR HOMELAND AND WE WANT TO PROTECT IT`
anyway,it instills a sense of belonging too right?
 

In Singapore, women make up a large percentage of the work force contributing significantly to the economy. Therefore to have our Singaporean women engaged in the military would have a negative impact on both the work force and economic growth.
 

xinli, i'm sorry. because i really don't get what you were saying in the posts 2.54am and the 3.01am..
In the end, do you think girls should go for NS?
 

How about compulsory National Service for girls - 2 years in Nursing? Some of you said that NS be made optional for girls. Why must it be optional for girls and compulsory for boys?
Benny - you mentioned that if girls are in NS they would end up with lots of scars. You mean to say that the guys who go for NS end up with scars all over them?
 

agreeable with Theng Ong's point of view that with NS made compulsary, it will bond those in it together.

I would like to also point out one thing - SINGAPORE HAS A DECLINING POPULATION.

There are always arguements in the papers that there would not be enough men in the future to serve national service. So why do we not include the ladies ?

I know with the aid of technology, the duration of NS can be reduced, however it is still with a short number doing NS, will NS be ineffective.
 

I personally would prefer the girls to enter NS, as through it they can also be further instilled with the boys to build a strong bond towards Singapore.

Scars, like what benny said can occurr for the girls, however is it not that when people are under pressure can we see their true character and from there we would know what to change ?

National Service strengthens the endurance and resilience of the people, and it should be made compulsary for all able bodied persons.
 

Beng Hock had initially stated that when guys enter NS, they would leave with a dictionary of profanities.

I would agree, however is it not that when we are in school now, are we not hearing the exact same things.

Furthermore, vulgarities used by a person depends on the person's development of the mind. Certain situations would make a person angry and out comes the word.

Should we blame the vulgarities learned through NS. Is it not the norm amongst human beings to be influenced by what we hear even in School ?
 

This is the 21st century, aren't the ladies around the world arguing for

EQUAL RIGHTS.

hehe...maybe we should let them do NS to benefit the nation.

*My due respects for the mothers of Singapore, as giving birth is considered NS to them. :)
 

I would like to comment on Joseph's last post.

If the girls join NS, would they not be prone to more men and make them more vulnerable to rapist ? Furthermore, all able bodied men enter NS. This could be a potential problem due to the Natural Animal instinct of a male.
 

I do not agree NS should be made compulsory for girls. Since there is no shortage of guys now, why include girls? It's around 40 years since Singapore gain independent. The policy of boys serving NS when reach the age of 18 began since 1965. The boys who are 18 years old then are around 58 years old now. Thus, almost all boys who are between 18 years to 58 years old are once in the army. Would there not be enough men in the future to serve national service when there is an increase of boys every year. Is there a need for girls to join NS when there are already so many boys?
 

Ci Hui
NS started in 1967. Anyway, you expect the guys to serve NS forever in the life? At 58 yrs? Please give us a break.
 

I do not expect the guys to serve NS forever in the life for 58 years. What I mean in my previous post is national service do not only stop after the 2 years training. After the 2 years, boys still have to go back when call upon. Thus, there will not be an insufficient need of boys in NS. Moreover, all man from the year 1967 till now 18 years old lad are all 'back-up' army. So why need girls?
Honghui mention the rapid advanced of technology taking place. When a war occur, do we still need manpower to win over or just need to sit in front of a computer and press a key so as to shoot a bomb?
 

the military experience influences the developmental course of young women, altering their demeanor and self-image. Women who serve in the army demonstrate an increase in self-confidence and seem to aspire for a professional career after their discharge.
 

I agree that character improve through hardship and pressure. But is NS the only way to improve character. I know that NS is a good and fast way to improve one’s character, because during NS one will be away from his comfort zone. But NS conscription for girls would not be suitable, because the natural physique of a guy and a gal is completely different. A gal can’t possible go through the same training for a guy. Furthermore, if NS is made compulsory for girls, it might cause females in Singapore to be lacking physical femininity, because all the girls in Singapore will have toned muscles. And we might have to hold ‘competitions for muscle ladies’ instead of beauty pageants.
 

With reference to Brian's 1st post, it is already in place of ladies in the army. However, they might not be totally involved to a certain extent till they go into battle grounds to fight. They would be usually be in the admin side of the army. As what Mr sulaiman said in his post at 4.39pm
 

Ci Hui
there is no such thing as back up! NS men finish their liability to NS at 40 unless they are officers. Anyway we seem to be drifting away from the issue: the issue is whether girls should serve National Service, not military service. All these argument of advanced technology, does not stand because it is tied to military service. Maybe think over the objective of NS first - it is not just about be prepared for military attack.
 

Ok guys... Sorry about this but I would like to take the stand of Girls should be in the national service.

I would like to bring up 2 movies are going with my point. They are Mulan and LOTR: Return of the King. They brought up values and determination that is masked in girls. Who says girls cannot fight in war besides helping up in the medication and adminstration side?

Now I would like to bring up a real life example that happened in the war between USA and Iraq. This lady who was in a convoy was captured. She was highlighted all round the world for her bravery.

Recount:
Her convoy took a wrong turn in Iraq and her convoy was ambushed. All her fellow soldiers were killed leaving her standing alone.
She only was captured after her ammunitions ran out. With that she took down a few enemies. Fortunately she was rescued in a hosipital after a recoil mission was conducted.

[This can be found in the strait times during the war period]

So I would like to come to a conclusion that even in fantasy and the real world, ladies played a great role in battlefields and war.

So what will make me stop saying that girls should be enroled in NS?
 

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Regarding Iffah's comment 4.29am
I do not agree with you if you say girls should go for NS based on interest. In the early ages of Singapore, there's a riot in Singapore bacause the people could not accept the fact that our country is implementing that idea. But after persevering through those rough patches Singapore NS is still going strong. So why not for girls?
 

To Justin:
Nice idea of yours considering mothers in Singapore having national service.
 

If Singapore wants to make NS complusory for girls. I would agree with Mr. Sulaiman of placing the girls to help in the medical or office department for 2 years. This will solve all the problems of what we have discuss till this point. About the scars, manly girls etc. They can even learn a life skill that can be used anytime, anywhere. At wartimes, girls could also play apart by helping in the medical side. In most scenarios, there wouldnt be enough medical personal in action.
If the girls serve NS this problem will also be solved.

Another issue about guys spending extra 2 years in the army, letting the girls have a advance lead of 2 years in army and working earlier. If girls serve NS, the guys will also not worry about lagging behide the girls of their age.

Thus, i would agree that girls should also do their part in helping the nation. Doing more feminine stuff like medics. Wearing nice womenly uniform rather than the manly jungle No.4 Uniform. Serve NS too for 2 years like the guys!

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

Comments on Justin's Post about why we hear vulguries in school but we do not really get influence. Firstly, you mus noe tat vulguries are not allowed in school. Even if someone use it, u will have the think that it is wrong. If you arent a vulgur person, your mind should reject it saying that is wrong. However in army, the language is quite corrupted. The use of vulguries isnt an offences. In fact, is in "almost" all their sentences. Making it anyone to feel that is right to use it. Does that answers your question?

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

You know something Beng Hock. If the enemy uses a whole group of strong men in attacking our country and we use a whole lot of females, will the males fire? This is another way to defeat the opponent. A group of our class girls like creatures going against the strong males. [Hmmm, interesting thought...But nvm] So let me ask you a question, if you see our class girls coming for you in a war, will you fire?
 

Of cause! you are asking the obvious? They are the enemy. If u dont fire them, they will still fire you. It is their problem that they join the army, of cause they have to know that they will get killed in a war. You cant expect all guys not to fire at girls rite? If all guys were like you. There is no need to protect Singapore already. Any small country can just send a group of women and the whole of singapore will be conquer. Not jus Sinagpore, EVEN AMERICA! if you are saying guys cant shoot girls in a war. Pls tink. No offence though.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

okay heng kai...let me clairfy.

A potential problem when women do NS is that they will be more exposed to men. Things can happen when in the NS, the ladies may be more prone and vulnerable to the men ? Some may even get rape, molested ? This is only a potential problem.
 

i do not agree with iffah that girls should be allowed to go based on interest.

if that were to happen, those with similar interest would stick together in times of difficulties. furthermore, it is best that we are pulled out of our "COMFORT ZONES" onces in a while, and what better than to allow everyone to go for NS, where we can intereact with people of different races, language and religion.
 

i agree with beng hock that the used vulgarities in school is wrong, however, why do i hear everyday in passing ? hmmm;)

anyway, does the word National Service permit anyone to say vulgarities. perhaps, people tend to be more "Expressive" but still ,self restraint kicks in.

After all, we may know the word, but would we use it, should we use it ? Is vulgarities in the National Service going to hinder building of civilised civilisation ?

Well...of course there is also free speech....but that is another issue...
 

of course the guys must and will shoot the girls...what do you expect...the guys to drop their weapons and stare into oblivion ?
 

nice debates that you guys had...well, i do not agree with iffah's post on her stating that girls going for NS is just to make bonds with people of the same interest. and girls should not be train to fight during war times because its a waste of lives.If every one has this thinking/ perception, what do you think would happen to singapore? If thats that case, everyone would just be worry about their own safety , their family members and not the whole of singapore. WHo would then sacrifice themself just to protect singapore. Wouldn't the guys feel that its unfair that they have to serve NS -endure those harships while ladies are able to enjoy themselves outside?
 

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Yeah Joc.
Girls are enjoying themselves arent they? You are saying it is unfair to the guys? Yeah. Maybe not to those who have gf, wouldnt want them to suffer rite? But generally, guys do feel unfair. 2 years to say its little, actually it is not that little. 2 years, u can do much. Girls that do not attend NS will really have a 2years lead. More over, Guys going in army some will lose interest in studies or maybe become dumber? lOLs. Equal rights, said by justin. If the good things in life have equal right for boths sexes, why should NS differ? yeah? What you guys think about this?

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

xinli. u said higher pay? why? there's no reason anyone will give them a higher pay, never heard of it before too. Make sense?

For studies, only for special reasons. Like completing ur current studies. U cant just continue with ur studies like to university. Imagine u take medical studies. The course will be 7 years, by the time u serve NS u are already 26? are u saying the goverment will let u do that? Of cause not.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

to beng hock. there is a higher pay.

for example, if you check the MOE website, teachers who have finished NS will receive an increment of about $100-200 more than those who did not go for NS.

i will also like to add that National Service should not be considered as a suffering event but more of serving the nation for the benefit of everyone. If we keep these values in mind, NS should be able to pass fairly quickly.
 

eh guys i think this kind of topics is great...

Therefore i think that NS should be compulsory for girls so that it gives them a better understanding in times of emergency.. Through this NS more girls would be enlisted in things like tending to the wounded..

So what do you guys think?
 

One more thing, if girls are made compulsory to go for NS, a sense of belonging will be instilled in them.Right?

Also doesn't mean that they are not as strong as guys ,they can't do other stuffs like nursing...:)
 

I think this topic so far is interesting than the rest. No offence. haha..
Btw i think that this blogging is good as it really allows us to think....:)
 

agreeable with what the last few posts said about guys losing out to girls in studies in the two years of ns.

perhaps the girls should enter ns compulsary, so as to level out the playing field of people of the same age. furthermore, ns can also help further instill a sense of belonging in the girls as well the guys.
 

i know xinli that you mentioned that if the guys work hard they can catch up , i agree with you on that. however, is it not obvious the girls have the time factor as an advantage as well?
 

Erm... I think girls shouldn’t do NS! Girls leh, if they go and do NS, the sergeant will have a really hard time training them. What if girls went to do NS then after the 2 years, they came back all muscles and rough?
 

No doubt the NS is also to instill a sense of belonging to the country, but NS is just not for girls! Many will not endure the tough training. Boys already serving NS tough, what not for girls?
 

Regarding Jie Xin's post at 2.22am, women should not be even in the Medical unit of the national service.

What will the women do then? Isnt it a pure waste of manpower? Even so, S'pore is small in population compared to other countries we are not benefitting ourselves.

Why are you picturing that women are so weak and frial? By the way, stamina can be built up. Its not always the case that girls are weak and lacking in stamina.
 

Regarding waranya's post at 3.02am Isnt that a very unhealthy mindset you bear? What is the concern for girls having muscles?
 

With regards to Michel’s post on 3:26 AM: excuse me, 2 of the 3 examples given are only in fantasy. Only 1 mentioned is real. ONLY ONE…Mulan is being forced to be in the army, so, I think it’s a bad example… I’m not trying to pick on you… ; )
 

Hello Waranya... Mulan is not forced into the army. She did it out of loyalty.
 

replying to:Mich said...
Regarding waranya's post at 3.02am Isnt that a very unhealthy mindset you bear? What is the concern for girls having muscles?

3:09 AM

i ask u lor. Do you want to see all girls look like they train for the WWF team? All muscly and they look ready to beat people up?i'm not saying there's sumthing wrong in girls having muscles. But,MANY girls,trust me, MANY, will NOT endure serving NS.
 

Okay, then sorry.
BUT, i thought is her father cannot go army then she help one.sorry lor, i never watch cartoon mah.
but, whatever, fantasy examples are not convincing enough (".)
 

I completely disagree with EEmay for the statement that she made."Gals are generally emotionally and of cuz physically weaker.".. and Do gals hav the physical ability tat bois hav " ???
Of cuz the ans is definitely NO...
I don't agree...NOwdays, guys and girls are always emotionally...and not all are physically weak..like duH...lolx. Girls, nowdays are getting much stronger and tougher..quoting from a phrase..don't judge a book by its cover..A girl may look fragile. on the outside, but you never know..in the inside, she's tough, determine, stronger, has a stronger will power than some guys...thus, i do not agree with eemay.
 

Xin lin. Justin meant higher pay by civil service. If u dont work as a civil servant, u werent get a pay increament. Most people will work at pirvate sectors. So my point still stands.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

Regarding chui wen’s rebuts on my comment.

I just wanna add to my comment, that what I was trying to mean on losing physical femininity, is that female might lose their femininity only physically, on the appearance. Which means the behavior, demeanor, and body gestures of ‘these’ females will be feminine and lady-like, but is only that on the appearance ‘these’ females may not be very feminine.

(Note: I did not say that they would end up with tons of muscles, I said TONED muscle, and with toned muscles how to compete with other countries for Miss Universe)
 

Yeah. Xinlin, y u say if we take university first we wun forget. of cos we would, thats why the goverment wouldnt let u complete your university first. If not, u will get the qualifications but u have already forgtten most of the things that u have learned in the university. like what nigel had said, we have to remember a whole lot of new things, commands, code words. It's natural our brian will just let some of the past information go away.rite?

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

Comments on Yunti post. You said this " Scenario: A huge group of girls and boys in an army camp, isolated – a possibility… with only sergeants and officers keeping watch. Hmm, interesting…so what will happen? Justin did mention about ‘Natural Animal instinct of a male’ (that’s hilarious enough. It made me think of men pouncing onto women like crazed beasts…". You are make me go "...".dots u understand? are u that ignorant of things happening. NS part of the goverment. It is not pirvately owned, Do you think such things will happen? They do have strict law on this matters. Moreover, there are already many NS-men who are girls in there. In addition, they are a moniority. Do you think they get "pounce" in there?(Justin's expression, kind of crappy?) NS have facilties for both men and women, so that not the problem. What do u think? Both gender sleeping together in the same bulk? of cos not. It should be safe, or can i say. Very safe in NS. Unless...haha i wouldnt think about that. Haha. Beware! lOLs..

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

raymond.. gals will be going 4 ns and not going 4 nurse training lehx.. even though their training will not b as tough as guys they will still have training that will tough 4 them wad..
 

Yun Ti
National service is about contributing to the nation. it is not merely about preparing for war - remember total defence? So nursing definitely can be a form of national service. In fact, in peace time, as nurses you contribute more than as a soldier.
 

Jie Xin
I say this deep from my heart - if I have to serve the nation in war, I will do so whole heartedly. i feel proud to be serving the nation. However, loyalty is not merely about serving in the army. As a responsible citizen, I also need to ensure that my children grow up to be responsible ones. Again, we are talking of total defence and not merely military defence. If money is everything to me, I will not be a teacher right now.
 

To those who said gusy are getting better pay after NS - are you sure? Say Justin and Xin Li joins teaching. Xin Li joins teaching 2 years ahead of Justin. Thus when Justin joins teaching, he is paid 2 increment more than another girl who is joining teaching with him (the present sec 2 girl). While Xin Li has been earning teacher's pay for 2 years, Justin has been collecting NS allowances. So even if he is paid the same as Xin Li, he actually loses out. Ask the guys and they will say this is fine. After all, this is a service to the nation. Money is not an issue here.
 

In other words, you should not compare what a guy is paid with a girl who is entering the job with him - she is 2 years his junior remember. You should compare what the girls his cohort is getting and how much they have already earned while he has been serving NS.
 

To those how mention that by serving NS for 2 years, they become rusty prior to entering NUS, I ought to differ. In contrary, you are fresher after a break from studies. In fact, as you start to work, some of you might even plan to study further after few years of work. It really does not matter.
 

reply to jie xin 2.32am.

job opportunities like what you said is termed "Survival". when i say that NS will instill a sense of belonging is that people will have a heart in singapore and ultimately feel connected to the country.

If singapore were to ever come to the situation where unemployment rate is high like you stated, i believe, that because of NS which is there to HELP INSTILL A SENSE OF BELONGING, Singaporeans will eventually stick together and strive out on their own.

Lastly, countries will obviously look at your qualifications and if you have not been employed for some time, and skills are not relevant, would they allow you to emigrate there ?
 

agreeable with mr sulaiman's comment about my point.

however, xinli, to what i know it is only in the civil service will Men who have served NS get a slight pay increment.

i am not so sure of the job industry.
 

I think girls should be serving National Service and contribute to the Nation.

1. They have SECURE JOBS for two years, even though the allowance is low.
2. Girls can be trained in the skill that can be beneficial to the population of Singapore ( all time favourite : Nursing ), and when come out to the real working world, have the necessary background knowledge.
3. A sense of belonging ( i love to emphasise this ) can be further instilled.
 

All these discussion on 'rapist'!!!! I just feel that it is out of point. Just by joining National Service, girls are not going to get raped. In my NS time I have seen many types of NSmen from various educational and family background. I am sure that Singaporean men are civic minded. No doubt there are perverts around in every country. However, things are in control here. If anything, girls working on night shift like factories might have to be more careful. I do not see such things happening in NS.
 

To those who still insist that NS = to military service, even for guys going into NS, they are either serving in army, police or civil defence. In war time, the while war is taking place, we would definitely need nurses with much resilience and commitment to serve diligently and help the injured. Nursing as NS is no lesser a task than army as NS.
 

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

Ok, after reading, i think i wanna JUMP to the other side.Girls should join NS. BUT, not that kinda tough training boys go through lah!Like what Adeline said, girls can be clerks or nurses or even cooks!
 

OR make every girl have basic first aid skills.(if they don't wanna serve NS.)With basic first aid skills, they are able 2 help in the case of war.BUT i think hor, no matter what also cannot FORCE girls to serve NS. What if the girl is FORCED 2 serve NS and she really cannot endure.(But, still muz serve)This kind of things cannot means cannot one mah. My Dad says, if the girl really cannot endure then still force her 2 do NS, it's like pushing her near 2 the edge of a cliff
 

If you feel that contributing to the nation and going into the NS is ridiculous,i feel that you yourself don't have the sense of belonging.
# posted by xxiinn_4e1 : 7:44 AM
Oh yeah, i agree to what xinli said.
The NS is not ridiculous ok! What if there's a war? The boys would be the ones protecting the country leh,that includes YOU hor.If they are not trained, how to protect the country??? and you???

Saying the NS as"ridiculous", i think it is an INSULT to boys also leh!!!
 

Ee May, U have 2 read what i said on 12.50am...
 

i think that if women in the military would mean the potential increase in the number of fatalities in cases of war. This could however be contained as most military service today does not involve direct engagement with the enemy.
 

i think it should be up to the military, based on the needs of national defense and in this case Singapore’s defense, to decide in what capacity women can be best employed
 

so...NS for gals..i think it shld not be made compulsory but rather we girls join to help with the admin or medical work.this will enable the guys to get more involved with their training n not burden themselves with admin or medical stuff...however they can choose to go for the basic military training with the guys...
 

okz...if NS is made compulsory for all girls n a war occurs,we r all posted to the army..who will take care of the children n the elderly when we r trying to defend our country?
 

many people said that women are not strong enough in physical but i think that when a woman is correctly trained, she can be as tough as any man.
 

yeah, I agree that guys will lose out to girls during the two years. Maybe guys can consider taking up part-time degree (study during the weekends).

Some of you said that during ns you might have to remember things like commands or codes, which might cause knowledge to leak. I think it is kind of weird. You seems to be indicating that the brain have a certain capacity, if one wants to acquire a new knowledge, one has to throw away a part of the old knowledge to make space for the new ones. A person will only ‘lose’ knowledge because that particular knowledge/skill has been stagnated for a looong time (so just 2- years of NS wouldn’t lose much one). Furthermore, knowledge when learned well enough will remain planted in the brain. When one stop using it, he will just have to refresh a little, and the stagnated knowledge will be retrieved from the sub-conscience brain
 

After reading, I agree that girls should go ns. Girls will be able to learn a new skill e.g. first aid skill. This skill can benefit not only during a war but any emergency during our daily life. It’s a lifelong skill.
 

i agree with ci hui said first aid skill can benefit not only during a war but any emergency during our daily life. It’s a lifelong skill. Also Women serving in other frontline jobs as fighter pilots or in artillery units or warships are just as likely to kill, and be killed, in combat as men.
 

I do not agree with yunti comment on, ”wouldn’t most of the girls be nurses then? Wouldn’t it cause a shortage of nurses in hospitals?” We go ns to learn the skill however not for the sake of becoming a nurse.
In ns, we only learn the basic skill of first aid. There are still some people who want to take up nurse, as their career in hospital and it will be a continuation of what was taught in ns. We cannot possibility learn all skills require for a nurse in ns thus, those who want to take up nursing as their career still need improvement and guidance given/taught in the hospital.
 

eemay, perhaps you should just check your tone before stating down your statements.*
anyway, according to your post about " Does tat mean tat onli wid NS shd the gals onli be able to protect themselves ???
Its abit ridiculous bah.." I think you're ridiculous.well..its only when girls go NS , that they are able to train up, defend themselves well. and protect their country.In NS, girls will also be able to pick up skills..Or should i correct your sentence by saying BEtter protect themselves.its not ridiculous. also, "Haven u heard of any past wartime history tat children and women CANT go fer a WAR???
Tis shd prolong forever...
Cuz it is realli ridiculous fer gals to enter NS "
YOu told xinli in one of the post that you are not saying that girls going to NS is ridiculous, but this is the evidence..YOu said that..Perhaps you should read it properly.* this shall prolong forever? are you still living in the past..If YOu are...Please wake up!.. NOw...is 2006!..it's completely different from those drama war shows times that showed women staying at home, pinning for their husband to be safe..
can you also not sound so Wicked in saying to warayna that way.*SHE's your friend
well, in my last post, though i did mention about girls having strong will, but my main objective was to disagree with you for saying that girls are physically weak..
 

i do not agree with peiyi and Aishini on the issue about nobody takin care of the elderly or children if we girls are in ns and go to war.During wartime,if the girls do not know the basic first aid skills,how can we treat injuries found on our family members and elderly?We cannot depend everything on the boys but learn to be independent and protect ourselves in time of crisis.
 

In ns,it can act as a melting pot for both men and women from different background.So,this help to build a strong bonds between men and women by working together.
 

With regards to yunti’s comment on 3:28, that ' wouldn’t hospital be lacking of nurses because girls are becoming nurses in NS instead?’ I wanna to say that if one day girls were to be in NS to learn nursing, they would just serve the NS nursing. And after that they would be out, to complete their U or go out to work. They would not become PERMENANT nurses in the NS. After the NS, those who wishes to pursuit nursing will take up nursing and work in hospitals, so there would not be a shortage in the hosipitals. You also say that ‘Who will want to be trained in hospital when by training in NS , it is considered as having served NS?’, if girls were to serve nursing in NS, the nursing course would be very basic, so ppl who wanna be nurses still has to be trained in hosipitals.
 

TO dearest dear dear Ee may in your comment posted on 2:13AM, 2:22 AM.

In your blog on 3:29AM, you did not only ‘juz compare bout the PHYSICAL abilities’ in your last comment. You say ‘Gals are generally emotionally and of cuz physically weaker’, so you did ALSO mention about the EmOtI0N part. So about Jocelyn saying the ‘girls having strong will’ thingy , is trying to rebut your statement on’ Gals are generally emotionally…weaker’

Regarding your statement on ‘U shd agree wid the idea tat gals physical strength is NT as STRONG as the BOis...’, Jocelyn did already agreed to that in the first place, from her comment on 3:05, she sates that ‘ok, well, reluctantly agree with theng ong that it is not idea or impression, but it is a fact that guys are stronger than girls.’

With futher regards to your another statement, ‘Who u tink u ARE leh to ask moii read ur post? ? ? ‘. Mr sulaiman already point out in class that we must not be too harsh or offences in our words. Such words like ‘ who do u think you are’ is NOT ALLOWED in the blog.

I hope u understand the rules in this blog before you make anymore obscene statements. Also, pls read carefully each and every comment on this blog before you pinpoint anyone.
 

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DES. u stated that "if you say that the guys will forgot about what they had study, i agree with xinli, that you had might forget about sec 1 to sec 3 work in your 'o' level, but do you really forget totally or partially? you could still pick up when you complete your ns."

Firstly, u are saying about sec1-3 work? This is fair rite? Gals and guys have to restudy wad we have learned in the last 3 years. But after NS the guys will be the only ones who forget most of the things. Not the gals. Taking up extra course will just use up extra time. In this way, the guys will even be more lack back then the girls who do not attend ns. That's my point. It was not abt forgting wad we have learn. Of cos it's natural to forget. But it jus the guys forgetting and not the gals.

*benghock ;: hawKS-
 

Well, i am back again.

It seems to me that the last 70 or so posts have suddenly "sprung" up overnight. hehe

Anyway, the last few posts have been emphasising that Girls should join NS as they can pick up skills and be better trained.

This is a point that i must agree with. National Service allows a person to serve the country, it is also at this time when the person undergoes pressure to react to circumstances.

I Feel that this will definitely allow a better character to be instilled in both girls and boys.

Furthermore, Singapore has a small population. If we , Singaporeans, do not serve the country, who will ?

I believe that girls can play in more ways than one in serving NS. Besides nursing, national service for girls can also be in community involvement?

As necessary it is to build a strong military defence, it is also important to build an equally strong psychological defence.

Girls who join NS can play a part in this.
 

omg...can we get this straight...

NS IS NOT ONLY MILITARY TRAINING.

I understand that there are some posts which says that girls and weaker than boys. I agree with this scientifically. In terms of emotion, i also agree, that the girls can tend to be more vulnerable.

However, NS can build up a person's character and moral fibre.

Singapore has a small population, in this world and age, we need new ideas that can come forth to help Singapore. THis can be achieved through National Service, as during this period of time, those serving will THINK ABOUT THE COUNTRY MORE OFTEN THAN EVER. ( at least that is what i think ).

WHo knows, maybe a National Serviceperson ( applicable to both guys and girls when they join NS ) will come up with a bright new idea for the benefit of Singapore.
 

I believe that we should also open up military training for girls in NS despite the many controversy. The girls who join the military factor of National Service can also be in the technology logistics department.

Now with advanced technology, one does not need to directly go into a battlefield if the needs arises. Therefore, the use of technology can aid in the military part of National Service.

Theng Ong is not wrong in suggesting that girls can do one year of nursing for NS. This helps in the economic defence of singapore as the people can stay relevant and competitive through rapid changes of environment especially the health sector.
 

the purpose of the stricter rules i believe is to finally put a curb or end to males who try to permanently defer NS. it does not necessarily mean that the number of men are trying to escape.

furthermore, if a person actually runs away from NS and leaves the country, he can never ever step foot into singapore freely.

jie ying, somehow i cant see the relation of your post to the blog topic of girls serving National Service.
 

it is the post at 8.04am by the way
 

Some of you state that it is not fair that guys have to endure 2 years of NS, while girls can relax at home, and even be ahead of the guys. But, the world is not perfect, it is not fair. If to talk about fairness
…why does gals have to endure 10 months of pregnancy, and labour pains. While the guys just sit there, shake leg, 10 months later, then got people call them daddy already
….why does gals have periods every month, and have to endure the possible side effects (eg. Bloatness, aches in the back, sudden break out of acne, etc)
…why are there discriminations regarding jobs on married woman rather than married man. ( some employers prefer not to hire married woman, in case they suddenly got pregnant, and have to be on leave)
....……………for more examples, pls inform mi through this blog ( but I might not be online on fri, ThE lAsT dAy.) (<_>)……………………………....
 

Regarding Farahin's comment at 6.50am

Just have a look of 'some' of our school girls. They are already tomboyish, rough and they already distorted the natural feminine body. Won't these talents go to a waste at times of war to defend our country?

And I'm sure that many of Singaporeans girls are like that these days.

I found something very interesting in the posts. Girls always wanted equality among genders. They always wanted equal opportunities, equal rights, equal etc. In addition, they even wanted whatever men have. As the females always says "Whatever is mine, its mine. Whatever my husband have its also mine."

When it comes to these hard work and training, they have some sort of concession rate.[ Sorry that I went out of point]
 

I Totally agree with Beng Hock's point at 5.14am The time and opportunities sacrificed to serve the nation will result in inequality among the men in comparison to women.
 

I think the girl should be included from the army (NS) where character and leadership skills can be obtained as NS is similarly to those in the working world, only in a more physical manner? So, why women should be excluded from the army?
 

Yes I agree that Physical demands in the military have always been the main factor for women’s exclusion from the army. But using correct methods of physical training, women can be built up to the same levels of physical fitness as men of the same size and build.
 

to wee chun last post.. i agree that in the hospital ther are already alot of nurses and that is not a need to recruit some more. in my opinion i feel that it is ok to go into NS and i think that their training will be different from the guys. even though to guys girls training maybe *softer* but dun 4get that girls have that monthly visitation and to girls the training maybe tough to them. therefore wad i m saying down here is that guys and girls training differ according to their endurance level and if a girl is physically weak, why did she go into NS?
 

to ash~!!! i agree wif your point that if girls wan to go NS let them.. i agree that we do not need to obstruct them. what is the point of obstructing them when they wan to test on their endurance level.. moreover if they wan to serve singapore let them. but i think that not many girls would want to go to NS. not because they are weak but mayb they hav other goals in live that they want to achieve.
 

to hong hui.. u sae that it is not an easy job because they will be running up and down. however they will be trained in their endurace level wad.. so when war come. they will be prepared to save all their injured singaporeans out in the battle ground wad.
 

I do not agree with jiexin.Although Time and energy had to be sacrificed during the days you are in ns, think of what we can gain from ns. These time and energy did not go down the drain. We gain a whole lots of new experience which cannot be gain by just study and working. The time and energy are sacrificed and in the process,we gain new experience and learn to become a much more independent individual.In order to gain something,we have to sacrificed another thing.Anyway,how can it be a sacrifice when serving our own nation,a country we are born in.
 

Regarding the comments that the girls get raped, i don think its even a case..
For example, in a camp, the discipline is tight so i don think there will bw such cases unless the commanding officer is ill-minded.. haha..
 

One more that i want to comment on benny's post that girls shud be a medic as they are physically weak. During a war, it is all about mentality when you are dealing with the patient. So i think certain girls only can go through this kind of challenge.. therefore, i don really think that national service is qutie suitable for girls..
 

Last but not least, i would like to agree to everyone who says this is good experience. i really think that NS gives us a good experience in the process as we are to handle real life situations and ist is sort of an experiential learning. like wat anthony said, this experience cannot be obtained in working or studying world...
 

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

Phew!..sO many new posts..welL, i really agree with joyce..yuPs..with regards to eemay saying that warayna said "Ee May, U have 2 read what i said on 12.50am..." perhaps you 're too sensitive.. she's just reminding you to read her post, thats all..perhaps its a point that she wanted you to know about? Hey , common, she's you friend...
Anyway.. they were some people questioning on If NS were to be made compulsary, how would the girls react, will they be willingly? Well, it surely takes time to adapt to the new policy of the government..But well, as a girl/lady, i would be prepare and be willing to Serve NS..It just depends on your mindset. THough it's tough, but i believe as long as you have the mindset of going all out to protect your country, everything is possible
 

Okay, firstly, I wanna thank pple who argued 4 me <_ ; . Indeed, she was quite impolite… BUT, Ee May, if U read carefully, I wrote a “PLEASE” in that request.THIS is already asking in a polite manner. If i weren't polite, I'd juz say:"Ee may,U BETTER read what i said on blah blah blah..." I don’t think I’m anybody, but I just want U 2 read that! U want 2 read oso can, don read oso can lor, I don’t lose anything. I hope U can understand now, I don’t want 2 pick fights with U.
 

Actualy, I oso do n’t agree with peiyi and Aishini on the issue about “nobody takin care of the elderly or children if we girls are in ns and go to war.” Those who don’t have 2 be at warfront can take care of them. Not every girl, or even boy is gonna be at the warfront.
 

Opps, my mistake.(>_<)But, i still think it's still polite. So sorry, but pls, i don't wanna fight with U...
 

ok...so after further reading of the millions of post here..lolx...i kinda think tt maybe it wld be a gd idea for girls to join NS.by going to NS we get to learn more skills like wat jing mei stated...not juz how to handle weapons but first aid n how to survive in the wild (maybe?)
 

WELL, eemay, u asked:" Would u all wan to go fer NS service " ??? " If the gov were to announce tat all gals muz serve NS .... how would u feel "? ? ?
" DO u tink u would still feel the same way as b4 or would u "? ? ?


WELL, IF THE GOVN SAYS THAT, SO BE IT.I'D FEEL THE SAME AS B4, THERE'S NOTHING 2 LOSE OSO BY GOING 4 NS.THE MAIN CRTERIA I WANT IS THAT THE TRAINING CANNOT BE AS TOUGH AS FOR THE BOYS. (>,<)
 

Ho ho, lucky there isn't anymore heated arguments...

This is gonna be my last post4 the day.

I think girls going4 NS is gonna be interesting.Maybe it would be like a longer version of the "leadership-camp-like" camp.Plus,i think we'd get 2 Xperience going4 NS, juz like the boys. SO, boys, i think this gonna be the first time you'll say WE are ALL EQUAL.[Yah, if we girls nid2 go NS.(>_<')]
 

Oh, forget to say bye.

BYE BYE!!!(>_<")[lame...]
 

lolx...i dun think tt the girls tt go for NS will become muscular n big!!it all depends on the body type...it doesnt mean tt if we r strong we need to be big...they can be juz as strong yet look slim ...actually they become leaner rather than bigger...anyway so wat if girls r not as strong as guys?they juz need to be strong ENOUGH...
 

ok...so maybe joining the NS might be kinda fun..we can finally tok with the guys abt NS rather than juz sitting there n listening...plus it is proven tt the guys come out of NS a new man, they r more bonded to each other,learn different languagues n learn to live with the simplest of things..so if NS changes guys n prove to be gd to an individual shldnt girls 'allowed' to get changed too?

yes i agree tt the girls r not as emotionally stable as guys n some might faint upon seeing blood(some guys do this too) so they r not suited to fight in the front lines...however with all the technology we have now,girls need not be posted into the field or even be the medics...we can be those behind the computer doing the 'backstage' work...so no blood,no fainting but still serving the country...=D
 

i agree with xin li.. b4 guys go in to ns they are like unpolish diamond but den after polishing, they become polished diamond. and that polish diamond is due to the training and driling that they learn from NS. furthermore in NS they also can gather alot of general knowledge therefore i personally dun think it is a waste of time. maybe a person who do not wish to aquire knowledge and become a polished diamond will sae that it is a waste of time bax.. [[no offence]]
 

i agree with pei y8i.. singapore technology have indeed havex advance and maybe it is better that girls are train to do the backstage work while the guys go to the front line and *jiayou* haha. i mean protect our country. =)
 

Nice jump people. From 200 post yesterday, now 315 posts. woah!

Kaes, after seeing so many post rebutting each other on the pro and cons of NS. The last decision is still YOU!(the girls)

To conclude things up. To all girls, Just ask yourself would you wanna volunteer urself willingly to serve the nation, with a commitment of 2years?
 

*benghock ;: hawKS-

*signing off!*
 

Ok im a newbie.But there's harm harm in trying..

=)

Ive reflected on most of the comments and here's my opinion.Its Not compulsory for girls to be in National service as they would be a sarce of people left IF they were to be a war broke-out.

Singapore is known for people as their only resource so with a tremendous decrease in people after the war,population will decrease too and this will effect the development of Singapore.

Womens are left to increase the population in Singapore,thats partly the reason why the goverment did not made compulsory for women to enter the National Service.

=)
 

no harm i mean*
=)